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U.S. Surgeon General Dr. Vivek H. Murthy joins Yahoo Finance's All Markets Summit 2021

U.S. Surgeon General Dr. Vivek H. Murthy's full interview with Yahoo Finance senior reporter Anjalee Khemlani. Dr. Murthy discusses the timeline for vaccine approval for children as well as the battle against misinformation during the COVID-19 pandemic.

Video transcript

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ANJALEE KHEMLANI: Dr. Vivek Murthy was confirmed by the Senate in March of this year to serve as the 21st surgeon general of the United States. It's his second stint as the nation's top doctor. He also served under President Obama. The coronavirus pandemic is, of course, the biggest challenge of his career, but he's no stranger to finding a health crisis. He's led the national response on a range of issues, from opioid addiction to battling Ebola and Zika. And befitting the times we live in, Murthy is the author of the book "Together-- The Healing Power of Human Connection in a Sometimes Lonely World."

Joining me now is the US surgeon general, Dr. Vivek Murthy. Dr. Murthy, thank you so much for joining us today.

VIVEK MURTHY: Well, I'm so glad to be having this conversation, Anjalee.

ANJALEE KHEMLANI: Well, that makes two of us. So let's get into it. I mean, there's obviously a lot going on and a lot that you have on your plate. But I want to talk about the most recent thing, of course, that's on people's minds, and that's the vaccination for kids 5 to 11. I know that the White House just announced a plan in the past week. And I want to just walk through what you expect the timeline to be for when we will actually see the jabs in arms.

VIVEK MURTHY: Well, it's a great question, Anjalee. And I'll just say, not just as surgeon general, as a doctor, but as a dad, I'm so excited for where we are at this point where we now have the possibility of vaccines for kids under 12 on the horizon. I've got two kids who are under 12. And like all parents around the country, we have worried about how to keep them safe during this pandemic. So this is a big moment.

Right now, what's happening is the FDA is reviewing the data that they've received from Pfizer about the trials for kids under 12. And once they deliberate on that-- they have set a date for their advisory committee to meet at toward the end of October. After that advisory committee meeting, they will consider the recommendations, and they will issue a decision. The CDC will then take up the process, and they've scheduled a time for their advisory committee to meet in the first week of November. After those recommendations, they will then consider their final decision and will render it likely within days after that. So while we don't have an exact date yet, I think it's just going to be a few weeks, most likely, until we see some sort of decision from the FDA and the CDC.

And in anticipation of what may come, potential authorization for a vaccine for kids under 12, we have been planning to get ready for that. And there are a couple of things that we want parents to know. One is that there's going to be enough vaccine. We've actually procured the supply needed for all 28 million children between the ages of 5 to 11. The second is to know that this will continue to be free, like vaccines for adults and for adolescents.

The third thing to know is there will be tens of thousands of access points for people to get vaccinated. We've been working with doctors to make sure we can get vaccine into offices with pharmacies, the existing network of pharmacies that we've already gotten vaccine into. We're also working with children's hospitals, with local schools as well, to set up vaccination centers. We want there to be short lines and many options in terms of where people can get vaccinated.

But finally this, Anjalee. We know that throughout this campaign to get our country protected against COVID, one of our biggest obstacles has been misinformation. And we've seen it proliferate, particularly around the vaccine. We are anticipating there may be misinformation that circulates around a vaccine for children as well. And to me personally as a parent, that is absolutely something we have to push back against. Because I think every parent and every individual has the right to accurate, factual information so they can make the right decisions for themselves. That's why we have worked to build a national education campaign where we're working with local nurses and doctors and faith leaders and teachers to make sure people can get accurate information from sources they trust.

ANJALEE KHEMLANI: So that's really interesting that you bring that up. I want to dig into misinformation for the next couple of minutes. We know that that has been a big problem, especially with adult vaccinations. And obviously, talking to nurses and those people, those individuals who will be in touch with parents and talking to parents is important. Not to call it out, but you're a minority. I'm a minority. We understand the impact of social media, really, in a big way, and how much more influence comes from there in today's age.

I know that you've called out the tech companies that are in charge of this and calling for more accountability for spread of misinformation. But I wonder if there's not a role for government too to pick up the baton there. Rather than just talking to the usual set of characters and maybe a nicely produced video here and there, why not talk to the individuals where they are?

VIVEK MURTHY: Well, that's a really important point, Anjalee, and that's exactly actually what we need to do to reach people. 30 years ago when-- 40 years ago, in fact, when my predecessor, C. Everett Koop, was surgeon general, he did an extraordinary job talkng about tobacco and HIV. But back in that day, you could actually speak to the majority of the country through a few newspapers and a few news channels.

As you know better than anyone being a journalist, that has changed entirely. And people get their information from different sources, different places. We're a big, diverse country. Not everyone trusts the same people or the same institutions. So people need to hear the message from different messengers, through different channels. And that's actually one of the reasons we actually built the COVID-19 Community Corps, which is a group of over 16,000 individuals from all walks of life, thousands of organizations around the country, from churches and rural areas to community organizations and urban areas to all kinds of folks.

And what they have been doing is reaching people where they are, whether it's in congregations, in doctor's offices, in schools and workplaces, recognizing that people need information through channels that are convenient to them. And we're going to continue to work on expanding that. In fact, I can tell you for the education campaign that we're building right now, not only are we going to utilize the full power of the community corps, but we're also building a special parent leadership corps of parents out there who can talk to fellow parents and help them get the facts and make a decision that will help protect their child.

ANJALEE KHEMLANI: Well, how do you move beyond the fact that if someone knows that they're affiliated with a government campaign or just sees something from a government handle, they're automatically going to dismiss it? There's that mistrust factor, and they'd rather go to an outlet where they feel like they're being talked to rather than being lectured at or something to that effect. Has there been any discussion about how to work around that? To your point, there are so many more channels now to get that information out.

VIVEK MURTHY: Well, for sure. And in fact, that's one of the reasons why when we work with-- and we do work so much with doctors and nurses-- we know that in polls, a large portion, around 80% of people, said that the ones they want to hear from when it comes to making a decision around vaccines are their doctor, their health care provider. And so supporting those health care providers, making sure that they have tools they need that we can help provide answers if they need it, that's one strategy that we've taken.

And it's been actually very effective, because when you look at the people who were hesitant about getting vaccinated in January and those who ultimately changed their mind over the summer, one of the big reasons was conversations with their health care providers. But another big reason were actually conversations with their family and friends, which is why we always emphasize to people-- and I certainly do this myself-- you don't have to have a medical degree to be a powerful messenger when it comes to helping people protect themselves against COVID-19. It's just knowing that someone cares about you that will often make them more willing to listen to you. And sharing your own experience, helping direct people to the facts, is really powerful.

Now, Anjalee, I'm going to guess, just based on our shared ethnic background, that you and I both probably have family members who are on WhatsApp groups with friends back halfway across the world and family members, and there may be misinformation transacted on those threads. I have had many occasions where my parents, for example, have showed me a video that was sent to them from a relative in the United States or in India on a WhatsApp thread, and it turns out to be completely not factual and accurate. And I've had to say, hey, that's not true.

But one of the things I laid out, in fact, in July, when I issued the first surgeon general's advisory on the dangers of health misinformation, is that to truly tackle misinformation requires everybody. It requires individuals to be more thoughtful about what we are sharing and to raise our bar so that if we're not sure something is coming from a credible scientific source, don't share it. It requires government to step up and to do more. It requires health care providers to take a more active role in talking to their patients about misinformation. But it also requires technology companies to step up and take some responsibility for the extraordinarily harmful misinformation that's being transacted on their sites.

Look, I don't think that the people who run most of these technology platforms are bad people who are trying to cause harm. I've had conversations with many of them, and we agree that it's important that people get access to accurate information. But what is not OK is for the companies to allow the continued proliferation of this misinformation while take only half-measures to address it. This is costing us lives. It's costing people their health in the middle of the worst pandemics we've seen in our lifetimes. I think companies have a moral responsibility to step up, to do the right thing, and to protect people from the terrible harms of misinformation.

ANJALEE KHEMLANI: Well, it's definitely a combination-- real talk-- of not just tech companies, but also media companies. And we know that this country is extremely divided right now, and we see that every day, just the announcement recently of former President Trump starting a new platform. So I wonder, is there not something that can be done broadly at the federal level? I know that there's been discussion about a carve-out in Section 230. Senator Amy Klobuchar, for example, has been backing that. Do you support something like that as a tool that can be used to help with the accountability?

VIVEK MURTHY: Well, there certainly are legislative options that legislators are looking at. As surgeon general, I don't craft legislation or pass bills or laws, but I know that the legislative branch has been looking at some of those. And here's what I would say across the board. Given the pernicious effects of health misinformation, we should keep all options on the table as we look to how to address this. Because what could be more important than our health and our lives?

And when you see children in particular, young people being misled by misinformation and being led to take decisions that are counter to their own stated interests because of misinformation they've seen, you start to realize we've got an extraordinary problem in our hands. But misinformation is not new, Anjalee. You and I know that people have been spreading misinformation for generations, right? But here's what's different.

It's the speed, the scale, and the sophistication with which this misinformation is spreading. And you're absolutely right that it's not just about technology platforms. We know the media companies have a really important role that they can play, and their role is even more important than ever just given how many people are still getting their information from traditional media channels. So we all have a role to play here. It's got to be an all-out society response. But it's also got to be an issue we take on with urgency given the toll.

ANJALEE KHEMLANI: sure Thing. I want to move on to something else, though, that is obviously a really big topic-- I know you've been focused on this as well-- and that's mental health. Since the middle of last year, I've been hearing nonstop that it's basically going to be the next pandemic, if it isn't already, that this country is going to be tackling with. How do we tackle it, though, considering, number one, we're still dealing with the pandemic? And we're already seeing the effects of it. One example is the labor shortage or the changes in labor in some sectors as well and just how people are rethinking how they want to work.

VIVEK MURTHY: Well, these are two really important and interrelated questions, mental health and the workplace. And you're absolutely right that COVID-19 has revealed to us the profound challenge we have with mental health. And I see reveal not in the sense that this is a new problem, but this is a problem that preceded COVID-19. We were struggling with high rates of anxiety and depression and suicide, including among young people, long before COVID-19 came.

And the question is, what are we going to do about it, recognizing that for many people, the crisis of COVID-19 has actually increased rates of depression and anxiety? And this is having an impact on the workplace as well. We know that an extraordinarily high number of people are considering quitting their jobs. Over 50% of people 18 to 25 in a survey a few months ago said that they were considering quitting their jobs.

But when asked more deeply about why this is, I think it's a few things. I think it's that the pandemic, being a profound and traumatic experience for people, has made people question what matters to them, has made them recognize that their mental health and well-being is really important. And I think some people have had the realization that the workplace that they currently operate in may not be supporting their mental health and well-being in the way that they need.

And what that highlights, to me, is something that I was studying and thinking about, actually, in the years preceding the pandemic, which is the fact that, number one, loneliness and isolation in our workplaces is actually quite high. And it comes with a consequence for retention, for productivity, for creativity in the workplace. The second thing that it's pointed out is that for many people, the culture in their workplace does not necessarily support mental health and well-being. There's still, unfortunately, in too many quarters, a sense of shame that people feel when they admit that they may be struggling with their mental health.

This, to be, clear is about more than creating an employee resource program or providing services to get counseling if you're struggling. Those are important. Don't get me wrong. But we have to move beyond individual services and to realize that it's the culture we build, the environment that we create that really drives mental health in the workplace. And it has to be led from the top. It has to be modeled by leaders. This can't just be lip service.

But finally, consider this. I think for many employees during the COVID-19 pandemic, it changed fundamentally their lives, and in ways that have often involved either living closer to family or having the flexibility to be with their children more often or to pursue things in their life which bring them joy and meaning. And many workers want that flexibility, recognizing that the joy of social connection and being able to pursue things that bring you meaning is actually extraordinarily important. And they aren't as willing to compromise on that and to spend two hours in a commute where they could be spending two hours with their family.

There was a fear that, gosh, with all this telework, somehow productivity is going to drop to the floor. That did not happen. In many cases, we saw productivity go up as people worked more, but they did it with flexibility and settings that they like. So for an employer thinking about the future post-pandemic, and even now, I would say these are incredibly important considerations-- that to retain employees, to attract employees, that having workplaces that give employees a flexibility to be able to be there for their family and friends, and realizing that meaning and purpose are extraordinarily important, and realizing that an environment and culture that support mental health is absolutely essential-- these, to me, are the competitive advantages that companies will have going forward. But it's also, frankly, the right thing to do for the well-being of our workers.

ANJALEE KHEMLANI: I'm so glad you brought that up, because I know from the pitches in my inbox that everyone's looking at these individual solutions and telehealth options, et cetera, not that they're not important. But one final point to hit with you. I know that there's a lot, obviously, on your plate. But one key thing that I think has been really a topic of interest for a lot of people, especially in the past year, has been health equity. And that's something that really needs to be addressed simultaneously, needs to be fixed in some ways.

So I just wonder, are there policies that you're considering or ways to craft messaging to help ensure that clinicians, and broadly, the general public as well as health care companies, can really think about this in a constructive way and move forward, keeping that at the forefront?

VIVEK MURTHY: Yeah, I am really glad you brought up equity, Anjalee, because this comes up a lot in our conversations internally. I'll tell you that this is a key part of the metrics that we look at on a regular basis. I'll give you a simple example with the vaccination campaign. We know that success for us is not just the number of people you vaccinate. It's how fairly and equitably we vaccinate the population, which is why even though it took a very long time and it took a lot of effort and a lot of engagement and strategy, we were very gratified to see that now, the proportion of eligible individuals in America who have been vaccinated is now roughly similar when you look at Black populations, Latino populations, white populations. That is good news. That is a sign of progress.

But we're not done yet by any means. Because if anything, COVID-19 showed us that the deep inequities that predated COVID have just been exacerbated during this pandemic-- economic inequities, educational inequities, and certainly health inequities. So there's a lot that we have to do. But one of the things that you see, even in the last six to nine months, is the amount of funding that has gone toward equity initiatives through the American Rescue Plan is really unprecedented. The focus in building into metrics the kind of equity progress that we're making, whether it's initiatives in the Department of Health and Human Services or in other departments, is also really striking.

And finally, when you look at the health care profession itself and how we train doctors and nurses and other health care providers, we're having more and more conversations with those trade training institutions and members of the profession, major medical organizations, about how we can jointly pursue equity and make it part of how clinicians and public health leaders think about their charge. When I was going through medical school, the idea was you become a doctor, you treat the patient in front of you, and then you've done your job.

But now, increasingly, the message that we want to send to health care providers across the country is that our collective job as a profession is not only to treat the patient in front of us, but to also look out for the patient who's not in front of us, who doesn't have the means to get on a train and show up in our clinic or who doesn't have the means to get out of work and come to a doctor's appointment. It's those people who are in the shadows that we've got to remember, we've got to fight for. And that's why equity remains at the forefront and center of our efforts on COVID and on health more broadly.

ANJALEE KHEMLANI: We'll definitely be watching and checking on that progress, so hopefully we'll have you back to discuss that and more. US surgeon general, Dr. Vivek Murthy, thank you again for joining us, and a happy Diwali or Deepavali to you and your family.

VIVEK MURTHY: Well, a happy Deepavali or Diwali to you as well, and my best to you and your family, Anjalee. Thanks for this conversation.