Trump berated Pence on Jan. 6 phone call: hearing testimony

The House select committee investigating the Capitol insurrection played video testimony on the Jan. 6 phone call between President Trump and Vice President Pence. Former White House adviser Ivanka Trump said the conversation was “pretty heated,” while others testified that Trump called Pence a “wimp” and “the P-word.”

Video transcript

PETE AGUILAR: And did the vice president have a call with the president that morning?

GREG JACOB: He did.

PETE AGUILAR: Were you with the vice president during the call?

GREG JACOB: So we had been putting the-- the vice president had finalized his statement overnight. We were in the process of proofing it so that we could get that out. And we were told that a call had come in from the president. The vice president stepped out of the room to take that call, and no staff went with him.

PETE AGUILAR: The president had several family members with him in the Oval that morning for that call. I'd like to show you what they and others told the Select Committee about that call, along with never-before-seen photographs of the president on that call from the National Archives.

ERIC HERSCHMANN: When I got in, somebody called me and said that the family and others were in the Oval and do I want to come up? So I went upstairs.

- And who do you recall being in the Oval Office?

ERIC HERSCHMANN: Don Jr., Eric, Lara, Kimberly. I believe Meadows was there. At some point, Ivanka came in.

IVANKA TRUMP: It wasn't a specific formal discussion. It was very sort of loose and casual.

- So then you said, at some point, there was a telephone conversation between the president and the vice president. Is that correct?

ERIC HERSCHMANN: Yes.

IVANKA TRUMP: When I entered the office the second time, he was on the telephone with who I later found out to be was the vice president.

- Could you hear the vice president or only hear the president's end?

ERIC HERSCHMANN: I only heard the president's end. And at some point, it started off as a calmer tone and everything and then became heated.

IVANKA TRUMP: The conversation was pretty heated.

ERIC HERSCHMANN: I think till it became somewhat in a louder tone, I don't think anyone was paying attention to it initially.

- Did you hear any part of the phone call, even if just the end that the president was speaking from?

NICHOLAS LUNA: I did, yes.

- All right, and what did you hear?

NICHOLAS LUNA: So as I was dropping off the note, my memory, I remember hearing the word "wimp." Either he called him a wimp. I don't remember if he said, you are a wimp, you'll be a wimp. "Wimp" is the word I remember.

- It's also been reported that the president said to the vice president that, something to the effect of, you don't have the courage to make a hard decision.

KEITH KELLOGG: Worse. And I don't remember exactly either, but something like that, yeah.

- Do you--

KEITH KELLOGG: Being-- like being, you're not tough enough to make the call.

IVANKA TRUMP: It was a different tone than I'd heard him take with the vise president before.

- Did Ms. Trump share with you any more details about what had happened or any details about what had happened in the Oval Office that morning?

JULIE RADFORD: That her dad had just had an upsetting conversation with the vice president.

- Do you recall anything about her demeanor, either during the meeting or when you encountered her in Dan Scavino's office?

ERIC HERSCHMANN: I don't remember specifically. I mean, I think she was uncomfortable over the fact that there was obviously that type of interaction between the two of them.

NICHOLAS LUNA: Something to the effect, this is-- the wording's wrong. I made the wrong decision four or five years ago.

- And that the word that she relayed to you, that the president called the vice president. I apologize for being impolite, but do you remember what she said her father called him?

JULIE RADFORD: The P-word.

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